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	<title>Comments for Posts technical---or quite simplistic</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dnquark.com/blog/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dnquark.com/blog</link>
	<description>Threads both sad and humoristic / небрежный плод моих забав ...</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 18:19:06 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
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		<title>Comment on Emacs + Evil = ecumenicalism by Petro</title>
		<link>http://dnquark.com/blog/2012/02/emacs-evil-ecumenicalism/comment-page-1/#comment-498</link>
		<dc:creator>Petro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 18:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnquark.com/blog/?p=251#comment-498</guid>
		<description>Great.
I just discovered evil mode. One more thing  I can recommend is Pentadactyl addon for firefox.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great.<br />
I just discovered evil mode. One more thing  I can recommend is Pentadactyl addon for firefox.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Lindy Hop Science by Sommer Gentry</title>
		<link>http://dnquark.com/blog/lindy-science/comment-page-1/#comment-492</link>
		<dc:creator>Sommer Gentry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 01:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnquark.com/blog/?page_id=304#comment-492</guid>
		<description>There also seems to be a small peak at 80ish bpm, reflecting the upbeat/downbeat distinction.  Cool!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There also seems to be a small peak at 80ish bpm, reflecting the upbeat/downbeat distinction.  Cool!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Emacs + Evil = ecumenicalism by chen bin</title>
		<link>http://dnquark.com/blog/2012/02/emacs-evil-ecumenicalism/comment-page-1/#comment-483</link>
		<dc:creator>chen bin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2012 13:36:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnquark.com/blog/?p=251#comment-483</guid>
		<description>This is the best post on evil-mode. Besides, I love your post on org2blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the best post on evil-mode. Besides, I love your post on org2blog.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Emacs + Evil = ecumenicalism by Frank Fischer</title>
		<link>http://dnquark.com/blog/2012/02/emacs-evil-ecumenicalism/comment-page-1/#comment-481</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Fischer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2012 15:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnquark.com/blog/?p=251#comment-481</guid>
		<description>You may try the following motions for sexp-navigation. The main difference to the Emacs ones is that (point) is  that the closing &quot;)&quot; is considered as the end of an sexp and point is placed there instead of the following character. Note that this is only a quick hack and widely untested (there may very well be edge cases)!

(evil-define-motion evil-fwd-sexp (count)
  :type inclusive
  (setq count (or count 1))
  (unless (zerop count)
    (goto-char
     (save-excursion
       (condition-case err
	   (let ((opoint (point)))
	     (cond
	      ((&gt; count 0)
	       (condition-case nil
		   (forward-sexp)
		 (error (forward-char)))
	       (when (&gt; (point) (1+ opoint))
		 (setq count (1- count)))
	       (forward-sexp    count)
	       (backward-char)
	       (point))
	      (t
	       (setq count (- count))
	       (forward-char)
	       (condition-case nil
		   (progn
		     (backward-sexp)
		     (setq count (1- count)))
		 (error (backward-char)))
	       (backward-sexp count)
	       (point)))))))))

(evil-define-motion evil-bwd-sexp (count)
  :type inclusive
  (evil-fwd-sexp (- (or count 1))))</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may try the following motions for sexp-navigation. The main difference to the Emacs ones is that (point) is  that the closing ")" is considered as the end of an sexp and point is placed there instead of the following character. Note that this is only a quick hack and widely untested (there may very well be edge cases)!</p>
<p>(evil-define-motion evil-fwd-sexp (count)<br />
  :type inclusive<br />
  (setq count (or count 1))<br />
  (unless (zerop count)<br />
    (goto-char<br />
     (save-excursion<br />
       (condition-case err<br />
	   (let ((opoint (point)))<br />
	     (cond<br />
	      ((&gt; count 0)<br />
	       (condition-case nil<br />
		   (forward-sexp)<br />
		 (error (forward-char)))<br />
	       (when (&gt; (point) (1+ opoint))<br />
		 (setq count (1- count)))<br />
	       (forward-sexp    count)<br />
	       (backward-char)<br />
	       (point))<br />
	      (t<br />
	       (setq count (- count))<br />
	       (forward-char)<br />
	       (condition-case nil<br />
		   (progn<br />
		     (backward-sexp)<br />
		     (setq count (1- count)))<br />
		 (error (backward-char)))<br />
	       (backward-sexp count)<br />
	       (point)))))))))</p>
<p>(evil-define-motion evil-bwd-sexp (count)<br />
  :type inclusive<br />
  (evil-fwd-sexp (- (or count 1))))</p>
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		<title>Comment on Emacs + Evil = ecumenicalism by Michael Markert</title>
		<link>http://dnquark.com/blog/2012/02/emacs-evil-ecumenicalism/comment-page-1/#comment-480</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Markert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 14:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnquark.com/blog/?p=251#comment-480</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your insightful post, great that there are some people who come from Emacs to modal editing via Evil :)

Some points to add:

@Combining Commands
vfa; can also be written as v2fa just to demonstrate that f(ind) and t(o) also take numeric arguments (think of M-2 for the rest of Emacs). Also most other (motion) commands take numeric arguments.

Evil supports text objects so you can also define your di$KEY to delete inside such a text object. (For more see evil-commands.el)

@Defining normal mode commands
From the Merge Request emerged the evil-leader package, to be found here: https://github.com/cofi/evil-leader (I also added it now to the plugins list on emacswiki/Evil)

@My dotfiles
cofi-evil.el depends on cofi-util.el and the cl package, if you copied code and something fails look there ;) (well and the other `require&#039;d packages)

evil-{define,declare}-key support also more than one definition at a time to keep your key bindings clean.

I mapped my CapsLock to Ctrl and use `jk&#039; to exit insert mode (look for cofi/evil-maybe-exit) because this way using other Emacs packages (that sadly never heard about Evil) is way easier. You can also exit insert state via C-[ but that&#039;s quite cumbersome.

Last but not least: Evil is discussed at the vim-emulation mailing list also accessible via gmane: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.vim-emulation that surely should also go into the &#039;Where you can learn more&#039; list ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your insightful post, great that there are some people who come from Emacs to modal editing via Evil :)</p>
<p>Some points to add:</p>
<p>@Combining Commands<br />
vfa; can also be written as v2fa just to demonstrate that f(ind) and t(o) also take numeric arguments (think of M-2 for the rest of Emacs). Also most other (motion) commands take numeric arguments.</p>
<p>Evil supports text objects so you can also define your di$KEY to delete inside such a text object. (For more see evil-commands.el)</p>
<p>@Defining normal mode commands<br />
From the Merge Request emerged the evil-leader package, to be found here: <a href="https://github.com/cofi/evil-leader" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/cofi/evil-leader</a> (I also added it now to the plugins list on emacswiki/Evil)</p>
<p>@My dotfiles<br />
cofi-evil.el depends on cofi-util.el and the cl package, if you copied code and something fails look there ;) (well and the other `require'd packages)</p>
<p>evil-{define,declare}-key support also more than one definition at a time to keep your key bindings clean.</p>
<p>I mapped my CapsLock to Ctrl and use `jk' to exit insert mode (look for cofi/evil-maybe-exit) because this way using other Emacs packages (that sadly never heard about Evil) is way easier. You can also exit insert state via C-[ but that's quite cumbersome.</p>
<p>Last but not least: Evil is discussed at the vim-emulation mailing list also accessible via gmane: <a href="http://news.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.vim-emulation" rel="nofollow">http://news.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.vim-emulation</a> that surely should also go into the 'Where you can learn more' list ;)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Emacs + Evil = ecumenicalism by dnquark</title>
		<link>http://dnquark.com/blog/2012/02/emacs-evil-ecumenicalism/comment-page-1/#comment-479</link>
		<dc:creator>dnquark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 13:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnquark.com/blog/?p=251#comment-479</guid>
		<description>@eric: Actually, the point that you make is pretty important, and better captures the Emacs/Vim selection behavior difference than my description. Also, IIUC, &quot;between characters&quot; is also the correct way to think of the cursor positioning in vi insert mode, while &quot;on character&quot; is the visual/normal state behavior.  So perhaps the asymmetry between Emacs and vi is really a consequence of that &quot;internal asymmetry&quot; in vi itself.

The reason it&#039;s important to think about this is that using some Emacs motion commands while in Evil normal/visual mode results in unexpected or incorrect (usually, in the off-by-one sense) behavior due to the different underlying model of the cursor positioning.  Sexp-motion commands are the key culprits here, but there might be others.  Ideally, I&#039;d like to see Evil compensating for this difference in behavior (see &lt;a href=&quot;https://bitbucket.org/lyro/evil/issue/109/make-paren-highlighting-consistent-with&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this discussion&lt;/a&gt;), but it&#039;s somewhat subtle and I personally don&#039;t have a clear conception of how one would do this in such a way as to preserve behavior that&#039;s sensible for Emacs without breaking Vim commands.

(Alternatively, someone could tell me how to navigate through code in Evil effectively without resorting to sexp-motions. I have found them to be very handy, and I know seasoned Emacs users that swear by them for any sort of code navigation.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@eric: Actually, the point that you make is pretty important, and better captures the Emacs/Vim selection behavior difference than my description. Also, IIUC, "between characters" is also the correct way to think of the cursor positioning in vi insert mode, while "on character" is the visual/normal state behavior.  So perhaps the asymmetry between Emacs and vi is really a consequence of that "internal asymmetry" in vi itself.</p>
<p>The reason it's important to think about this is that using some Emacs motion commands while in Evil normal/visual mode results in unexpected or incorrect (usually, in the off-by-one sense) behavior due to the different underlying model of the cursor positioning.  Sexp-motion commands are the key culprits here, but there might be others.  Ideally, I'd like to see Evil compensating for this difference in behavior (see <a href="https://bitbucket.org/lyro/evil/issue/109/make-paren-highlighting-consistent-with" rel="nofollow">this discussion</a>), but it's somewhat subtle and I personally don't have a clear conception of how one would do this in such a way as to preserve behavior that's sensible for Emacs without breaking Vim commands.</p>
<p>(Alternatively, someone could tell me how to navigate through code in Evil effectively without resorting to sexp-motions. I have found them to be very handy, and I know seasoned Emacs users that swear by them for any sort of code navigation.)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Emacs + Evil = ecumenicalism by eric</title>
		<link>http://dnquark.com/blog/2012/02/emacs-evil-ecumenicalism/comment-page-1/#comment-478</link>
		<dc:creator>eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 11:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnquark.com/blog/?p=251#comment-478</guid>
		<description>I am a long time (very long time) user of Emacs who learned vi on Unix V7 in ancient times and had always pined for a modal editor.  Evil has been a fantastic development, managing to combine modal editing with Emacs in a way that other attempts hadn&#039;t managed.  Your blog is a good description of the issues that do arise and I enjoyed reading it.

One minor possibly pedantic point: I would argue that there is no asymmetry in how Emacs handles selections.  The key difference between Emacs and vi is that in emacs the position is always &quot;between&quot; characters where in vi it is &quot;on&quot; a character.  For this reason, I have always set the cursor in Emacs to be a vertical bar to highlight this aspect.  When using evil, I keep the cursor as a block.  The difference positioning between the modes is then made visually clear.

Thanks again!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a long time (very long time) user of Emacs who learned vi on Unix V7 in ancient times and had always pined for a modal editor.  Evil has been a fantastic development, managing to combine modal editing with Emacs in a way that other attempts hadn't managed.  Your blog is a good description of the issues that do arise and I enjoyed reading it.</p>
<p>One minor possibly pedantic point: I would argue that there is no asymmetry in how Emacs handles selections.  The key difference between Emacs and vi is that in emacs the position is always "between" characters where in vi it is "on" a character.  For this reason, I have always set the cursor in Emacs to be a vertical bar to highlight this aspect.  When using evil, I keep the cursor as a block.  The difference positioning between the modes is then made visually clear.</p>
<p>Thanks again!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Emacs + Evil = ecumenicalism by Arne Babenhauserheide</title>
		<link>http://dnquark.com/blog/2012/02/emacs-evil-ecumenicalism/comment-page-1/#comment-476</link>
		<dc:creator>Arne Babenhauserheide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 20:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnquark.com/blog/?p=251#comment-476</guid>
		<description>I use control-lock-mode to achieve the same, without sacrifizing all the knowledge of useful key-combinations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use control-lock-mode to achieve the same, without sacrifizing all the knowledge of useful key-combinations.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Emacs + Evil = ecumenicalism by fs</title>
		<link>http://dnquark.com/blog/2012/02/emacs-evil-ecumenicalism/comment-page-1/#comment-475</link>
		<dc:creator>fs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 13:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnquark.com/blog/?p=251#comment-475</guid>
		<description>As a Vim user moving to Emacs/evil, I already have CapsLock mapped to ESC as you do, but I also swapped rctrl and ralt so I can hit M- with my left thumb and C- with my right. Might want to give it a try, for those chords you can&#039;t avoid :) I did this systemwide with xmodmap, actually - it comes in handy in other programs too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Vim user moving to Emacs/evil, I already have CapsLock mapped to ESC as you do, but I also swapped rctrl and ralt so I can hit M- with my left thumb and C- with my right. Might want to give it a try, for those chords you can't avoid :) I did this systemwide with xmodmap, actually - it comes in handy in other programs too.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Emacs + Evil = ecumenicalism by Titus</title>
		<link>http://dnquark.com/blog/2012/02/emacs-evil-ecumenicalism/comment-page-1/#comment-471</link>
		<dc:creator>Titus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 22:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dnquark.com/blog/?p=251#comment-471</guid>
		<description>Excellent post, very useful!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post, very useful!</p>
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